Dragonball Sparking! Omega.....

[Klepto]

We're not thinking in the same way, Klepto. So, in DBZ every fighter performed the exact same basic hits followed up by generic followup hits to the left, right, up or down? You're thinking on the very vague scale, like the idea of a 3D arena and being able to hit your character across it. I however am thinking very specifically in how each character fights, their basic hit set ups, if there are any cancellable moves, if some characters have super attacks with different start up speeds and such and such.

For the most part, yes, many of the characters in DBZ performed a lot of the same basic hits. With the exception of any signature attacks/combos, the majority of the fighting in DBZ consisted of regular high-speed punches and kicks that were easily blocked/dodged until one or two landed, often leading to either the character being smashed through nearby objects or blown to bits with an energy blast.

The thing about the basic Tenkaichi formula is that it was designed in a way that meant a lot of characters could be created at a time without as much time and effort it would usually take. How? They gave *everyone* the same basic moves, and made every super (rush) attack a cutscene with the same exact start up animations, speeds and for the most part distances. No super attacks had advantage (invisibility frames) over any other, but the properties for each are literally the same. This makes it equal, however it means that characters have no distinct strengths or weaknesses, and is the reason why once you've mastered one character you can fight any other character without having to adapt so much. I mean, if I play SF I really, really have to play differently with Ryu (for example) against Ken and Blanka. Personally I find it really difficult to adapt to Blanka, and there's other characters who I still need to learn to deal with like Vega. In Spikes games this is near non-existant. It makes it incredibly accessible, however so much so that the extent that you are always learning new things in the game is so little compared to these other good fighting games.

There's a difference between Street Fighter and Dragon Ball Z: in SF, most of the characters have their own fighting style. Blanka is... whatever the hell he is, Ryu and Ken are martial artists, Balrog is a boxer, etc. In DBZ there really isn't much depth in the fighting because everyone moves faster than light and can fire energy blasts. In fact the main differences in DBZ characters are the types of energy blasts they can perform. In fact I'd even go as far as to say Dragon Ball Z is all energy blasts and transformations. That's all anyone's really cared about in DBZ. No one ever said "I hope Goku reveals a new melee combo next episode," but rather everyone was more interested in seeing new beams and new ways to change Goku's hair from black to gold. I'm not sure if you could really compare DBZ and SF.

Anyway I'm getting too much in depth. I actually understand why Spike went with this method, it's actually clever. Because they made it the way they did they could cram in so many characters within their incredibly small time constraints; usually even getting about 20 well-made characters in a single game is a tough job for a good fighter which is developed for a *lot* longer. But Spike found a way to do it, and even if it took a lot of the depth it could have had a way and made every character so remarkably similar, they at least got the sales which is what they wanted. However, it's been years since then and years of the same sort of thing. Back when T1 was released it was new, fresh, people were interested. But now a lot of us are older and able to see the blatant shallowness, and less people are giving in. The idea isn't fresh, so there's less interest; if they want to sustain interest they are seriously going to have change things up (for the better, not like UT) and alter their formula. Their priorities must change, from content, to gameplay. Content can be added after time, as we go along. However once you make characters linear from the beginning, then it's very difficult to improve them along the way.

I still chalk most of it up to laziness on the developers' part. Sure the method they went with was convenient enough, but with sequels they had ample time to improve character individuality and they never did. They also have no idea how to please fans, nor make compromises to appease two differing groups. Budokai Tenkaichi 2 is a perfect example of that inability. I was happy with BT1's choice to do away with in-game transformations. I've personally always found it annoying when trying to reenact a good fight from DBZ, like Super Saiyan 2 Goku vs. Majin Vegeta , and the moment I start the fight Goku transforms into Super Saiyan 3 like an *******. Of course not many people liked this idea because for some reason they need to watch Goku scream and change his hairstyle mid-battle. And when BT2 came along, they scrapped it and allowed everyone to transform at will. Spike could've easily simultaneously pleased me and everyone who wanted in-game transformations by adding a simple toggle in the options that either allowed transforming or prevented it, but of course such a brilliant idea for compromise somehow managed to elude the hardworking developers at Spike.

Anywayy, my thoughts. I've thought up an idea to improve upon Spikes formula rather then dish it out completely and start over, because ofcourse I actually want them to use my ideas. I was thinking of making a new thread. Basically, it's keeping supers as cutscenes, but changing each moves 'start-up' animation completely. You know that generic dash every character shares when they do a rush super? Yeah, I want that gone.

I completely understand where you're coming from with the annoying rush ultimate techniques. I don't particularly care for cut-scenes when it comes to attacks like Super Kamehameha, Final Flash, etc. I think it takes away from the realistic ability to simply dodge an ultimate attack and not get killed, making your opponent (or yourself) have to work harder at hitting you.

[Frieza_Soldier]

I dont call it laziness anymore, I call it ball-breaking limitataions by the greed of Shueisha treating these games like cheap novelties of Akira Toriyama and milk it by the drop because they thought we'd buy whatever crap condition the games are limited to regardless until recently. Tony/Treevax mentioned it. Kinect was just testing our thin patience, Tony said they're only making it because they need a yearly game just because of company marketing policy.
♪ All I wanna say is that-they don't really care 'bout us..♪

[Zienzo]

/\ This /\

[Midori]

I dont call it laziness anymore, I call it ball-breaking limitataions by the greed of Shueisha treating these games like cheap novelties of Akira Toriyama and milk it by the drop because they thought we'd buy whatever crap condition the games are limited to regardless until recently. Tony/Treevax mentioned it. Kinect was just testing our thin patience, Tony said they're only making it because they need a yearly game just because of company marketing policy.
♪ All I wanna say is that-they don't really care 'bout us..♪

God forbid they take a year off so that they could make a game that's great rather then simply mediocre *sigh*

[Frieza_Soldier]

God forbid they take a year off so that they could make a game that's great rather then simply mediocre *sigh*

In total, Ultimate Tenkaichi sold 177,496 copies in it’s first two weeks. Maybe they like crappy games? namco standards are way too low to even put a stock share in. DBZ game needs no advertising and could have been a hot game franchise but thanks to namco; they're the laughing stock in the fighting game community. Even Burst limit gets a bet rep because it's lumped together with Spike's trash.

[Frieza_Soldier]

God forbid they take a year off so that they could make a game that's great rather then simply mediocre *sigh*

I'd like to have thought this WAS that year but as from what I've heard they havent even started anything. Ultimate Failure on Kinect was their serious game. At most they must have just read over nostal's papers but they haven't acknowledged it being anything influential on them yet. I'd hate to see that this time of patience was wasted for relaxing.