Taking the controls back to Tenkaichi? - Discussion topic

[NathanCX]

Forgive me my ignorance but other than the button layout and the odd follow-up what were the actual differences?

Another thing is that I actually prefer the button mapping on Raging Blast and surely isn't it something that could easily be changed by allowing the players to differentiate and customise the button-mapping?

[MysticGospel]

There's the signature attack button, specials are mapped to the right stick and there were commands that you could only do while guarding (Z-counter, sway, manual vanish, throw). It didn't change too much but it's basically impossible to switch to the Tenkaichi-style layout which I'm fine with because I prefer the RB layout, it's much more neat and organized.

[Frieza_Soldier]

They need to remove that 1 button for the signature. It's sensless. Unless Sigs were changed to actually unique sub super attacks, that didn't pause when used. Signature moves should actually BE moves that aren't supers but not regular attacks such as Broly's Gigantic slam from (Burst limit) I mean giving him 2 grabs...what use is that?
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQETimzfOlGXtJoogD-X2k7ck1WsKNVa9G_QUSuO3iH850QA7fDbQhttp://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSwYfquYxDiUTo6_eZKoHJbMfBAI4dxK Q0Ugvwb-I8LjmitxJnr

[Badboynic1010]

The worst that could happen is the moveset being 3 moves. That is one of the few + that came from Raging Blast. Most likely they will take out Signature moves as well

[Frieza_Soldier]

The worst that could happen is the moveset being 3 moves. That is one of the few + that came from Raging Blast. Most likely they will take out Signature moves as well
They need to change the controls enough to make this game feel new. But have it actually work this time. I feel the dodging button pointless as it is.

[Nasiso]

Hopefully back to Tenkaichi means everyone not having the same finishers. Unfortunately, saying that also makes me think they're limiting themselves. I would be lying if I said I wasn't bummed when I figured out Spike was developing this for a release this fall

[Kokos]

I think it's a good thing they tackle the controls, since that is a very common point of criticism in the official reviews. Reviewers tend to be pretty unforgiving to poor or inaccessible controls.
This could increase the game's chances to do well in the world of gaming journalism which means more sales for Spike and Namco Bandai.

I got no problem with the controls of the Raging Blast series (though Raging Blast 2 can be a bit unresponsive sometimes) but I definitely wouldn't say it's easy to get into.
Partially reverting back to Sparking's controls could be a good or bad thing depending on what they will actually change. In any case, they mustn't forget that smoothness and accessibility are important especially in times like these, where the less fanatic players are a clear majority.

[MysticGospel]

I honestly don't see how RB/RB2's controls aren't accessable, everything's laid out better. All supers are mapped to the right analog stick, ki charge is down on the d-pad, left and right on the d-pad adjust the camera, there's a dash button, R2/RT accesses your transformations, team members and fusions.

Most things are done with a button while in the BT games, you had to press multiple buttons at the same time (and the team menu sucked becuase there was always a useful function that changed your order which got annoying). The only "complex" thing about it is that the game uses nearly all of the buttons on the controller.


They need to remove that 1 button for the signature. It's sensless. Unless Sigs were changed to actually unique sub super attacks, that didn't pause when used. Signature moves should actually BE moves that aren't supers but not regular attacks such as Broly's Gigantic slam from (Burst limit) I mean giving him 2 grabs...what use is that?
I hope you're not suggesting making every sig like #17 and Majin Vegeta's.

[Zienzo]

I honestly don't see how RB/RB2's controls aren't accessable, everything's laid out better. All supers are mapped to the right analog stick, ki charge is down on the d-pad, left and right on the d-pad adjust the camera, there's a dash button, R2/RT accesses your transformations, team members and fusions.

Most things are done with a button while in the BT games, you had to press multiple buttons at the same time (and the team menu sucked becuase there was always a useful function that changed your order which got annoying). The only "complex" thing about it is that the game uses nearly all of the buttons on the controller.


I hope you're not suggesting making every sig like #17 and Majin Vegeta's.

I think he means more like Cooler, where it's unique but not normal.
Or Frieza with his tail...

[Frieza_Soldier]

I hope you're not suggesting making every sig like #17 and Majin Vegeta's.

No, thats absurd, those and Freeza's could be...SHOULD just be just plain or special combos. I mean moves like:
Dragon fist (Burst Limit/Budokai 3) Hawk Arrow/Eagle Kick (Budokai 3) Soaring Dragon strike (Budokai 3/Burst limit) Gigantic slam (Burst limit/Infinite World) Death wave (Budokai 2/Budokai 3) etc. Those were one second attacks that are special moves from regular melee with little effects and symbols but not Supers because they have no cutscene and aren't that damaging. Attacks like Dragon fist (B3) were basically combo starters.

[Zienzo]

No, thats absurd, those and Freeza's could be...SHOULD just be just plain or special combos. I mean moves like:
Dragon fist (Burst Limit/Budokai 3) Hawk Arrow/Eagle Kick (Budokai 3) Soaring Dragon strike (Budokai 3/Burst limit) Gigantic slam (Burst limit/Infinite World)

Death wave (Budokai 2/Budokai 3) etc.

Wouldn't that just be a super attack then?

[Frieza_Soldier]

Wouldn't that just be a super attack then?
Not really, Supers are beams, barrages, balls, and rushes. etc.
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSIhTdQU3lRRjAD27alFBNC3ZXZFJHQS ovjxt0cNOFr8fhYE1J2Rg
I mean this.

[Zienzo]

Ah, true.
I was mainly thinking about Death Wave though.

[Badboynic1010]

Would X/Square being light hits like O/B being Heavy attacks be too much?? Idk just a thought

Edit: Wait nevermind, this wont work out

[Frieza_Soldier]

Ah, true.
I was mainly thinking about Death Wave though.
(The wrong one from B2) is a 2 second swipe like 1 fissure slash. (that doesn't have to be a sig though) because we already have fissure slash.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTxIa4lGPoCW2ylBvWzczZbA4XtSyDqv fCdnseAB71Eoy9Aagfk

[Zienzo]

The one in B2 and BL is the same, though, isn't it? I haven't played B2 in years.
Edit - Oh yeah! Now I remember it. So what would it do? Be like Janemba's sig?

[Frieza_Soldier]

Would X/Square being light hits like O/B being Heavy attacks be too much?? Idk just a thought

Edit: Wait nevermind, this wont work out

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRvArUyy3fwGmUOfmb-MEzV82SqYejK9bYwPZP4H6U1qW3GUQGe
Maybe Square and another button.

[Zienzo]

I loved those heavy punches, some characters' just looked so ruthlessly painful, like that one there, C17's.

[MysticGospel]

No, thats absurd, those and Freeza's could be...SHOULD just be just plain or special combos. I mean moves like:
Dragon fist (Burst Limit/Budokai 3) Hawk Arrow/Eagle Kick (Budokai 3) Soaring Dragon strike (Budokai 3/Burst limit) Gigantic slam (Burst limit/Infinite World) Death wave (Budokai 2/Budokai 3) etc. Those were one second attacks that are special moves from regular melee with little effects and symbols but not Supers because they have no cutscene and aren't that damaging. Attacks like Dragon fist (B3) were basically combo starters.
And what exactly would be their function (assuming that this idea is added to RB2)?

[Badboynic1010]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRvArUyy3fwGmUOfmb-MEzV82SqYejK9bYwPZP4H6U1qW3GUQGe
Maybe Square and another button.

hmm, now to mention it it might work...maybe to switch triangle/Y with O/B so that triangle/Y could be the heavy instead

[Frieza_Soldier]

And what exactly would be their function (assuming that this idea is added to RB2)?
If sigs remain as they are then they should atleast BE signature moves...

[ProjectLDV]

It baffles me how the sig attack button isn't just another attack button. I mean its right there. Our secondary attack button waving at Spike...wonder if they'll notice.

[MysticGospel]

If sigs remain as they are then they should atleast BE signature moves...
No thanks, I'll take the bland ones that have different uses, these are games first and the gameplay needs to work well.

[Frieza_Soldier]

No thanks, I'll take the bland ones that have different uses, these are games first and the gameplay needs to work well.
How do you know they wouldn't have use? Nothing else shows me other wise why Broly's sig can't just be his normal throw, and Goku's already having 2 of the same move on the controller, or Trunks having that punch that should just be a charged one, and Gohan having a ki blast slower then regular ki blasts. I'm not sure you get get what I mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK5AdNyeSyE (1:29) is the dragon fist I'm refering to. Thats a clear combo starter, it would also work fine if tapping be was what makes it longer, then you can pursuit if u have enough ki.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa6CKLcQ9TM (1:38) is gigantic slam, if the character were to bounce up from that, you can actually combo with it.

These are more unique then Kid Trunks and 18 having the same one.

[MysticGospel]

How do you know they wouldn't have use? Nothing else shows me other wise why Broly's sig can't just be his normal throw
Because grabs aren't supposed to have smash attack 2 level 2 charge knockback, they're supposed to have charge attack level 3 knockback (except for Videl) which is part of what makes it unique and useful.


and Goku's already having 2 of the same move on the controller, or Trunks having that punch that should just be a charged one, and Gohan having a ki blast slower then regular ki blasts. I'm not sure you get get what I mean:
Goku's is meant more to attack from a small distance and to follow up certain attacks, Trunks' has a similar purpose except that it has a more defensive use. I also don't see how Gohan's Kiai blast is slow.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK5AdNyeSyE (1:29) is the dragon fist I'm refering to. Thats a clear combo starter, it would also work fine if tapping be was what makes it longer, then you can pursuit if u have enough ki.
So basically it would be a variation of Yamcha's Wolf Fang Fist sig or Nail's sig, also that sig sounds really boring if you can only follow it up with a pursuit.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa6CKLcQ9TM (1:38) is gigantic slam, if the character were to bounce up from that, you can actually combo with it.
Wouldn't the whole point of it to cause bounce? (which neither RBs have and likely wouldn't work right due to the armor that tripped characters have)


These are more unique then Kid Trunks and 18 having the same one.
Can't comment becuase I don't use Kid Trunks.

[kbrooksgohan]

lol sword trunks barely uses his sword lol. best versions where bl and infinite world.

[Zienzo]

Hey, what if they're bringing the counters back?
I really liked those...cept for transformations.

[Kokos]

I honestly don't see how RB/RB2's controls aren't accessable, everything's laid out better. All supers are mapped to the right analog stick, ki charge is down on the d-pad, left and right on the d-pad adjust the camera, there's a dash button, R2/RT accesses your transformations, team members and fusions.

Most things are done with a button while in the BT games, you had to press multiple buttons at the same time (and the team menu sucked becuase there was always a useful function that changed your order which got annoying). The only "complex" thing about it is that the game uses nearly all of the buttons on the controller.


Whether Raging Blast's controls are more accessible than Sparking's controls is debatable, but I still think it's pretty hard to get used to and slightly uncomfortable for a newcomer. It also doesn't help that the tutorial is a bit underdeveloped.

Dissidia's controls (a series very similar to the Sparking - Raging Blast series) will take some time to get used to as well but are generally easier than Sparking's - Raging Blast's controls. So I think it's possible, but that's easy for me to say, lol.

I can't think of a solution to making the controls a little easier (without dumbing down the gameplay) right now but all I know is that people love accessible and smooth controls, look at Call of Duty. I don't doubt the success is partially because of the controls.

[Frieza_Soldier]

How do u grab people off the floor in RB?

[Zienzo]

How do u grab people off the floor in RB?
Mmm, I think you grab while holding back on the control stick...

[Frieza_Soldier]

Mmm, I think you grab while holding back on the control stick...
It was eaiser in BT3.....

[Zienzo]

I find it kinda hard in RB[2] 'cuse you have to be right there to grab them and there is a very small window of time to do so. So if you realllly want to then you have to chase after them, make sure you're on the same level as they are, and then do the grab...course if you do the footsweep then it is a lot easier...

[MysticGospel]

I find it kinda hard in RB[2] 'cuse you have to be right there to grab them and there is a very small window of time to do so. So if you realllly want to then you have to chase after them, make sure you're on the same level as they are, and then do the grab...course if you do the footsweep then it is a lot easier...
Not really, the faint time is pretty high in RB2.

[Zienzo]

Not really, the faint time is pretty high in RB2.
Well, depends on how much health they have [lost]
The higher your health, the faster you get up.
But you're still right though. I guess I never really have done the...I-can't-remember-what-they're-called grabs in RB2

[Kokos]

I believe they are called knockdowns.
I just call them ground grabs.

[Dream Weaver]

NO! The grabbing system in this game is terrible. I could be like a few feet away and I can get grabbed. Even when we're on different levels in the air I can get grabbed. It's inconsistent.

[donkeyjack]

NO! The grabbing system in this game is terrible. I could be like a few feet away and I can get grabbed. Even when we're on different levels in the air I can get grabbed. It's inconsistent.

I thought I was the only who thought this.

[Kokos]

The increased range and being able to dash or teleport behind someone after the animation made grabbing in Raging Blast 2 more useful than in Raging Blast and the other Sparking games though. I'd like to keep it that way.

[Frieza_Soldier]

NO! The grabbing system in this game is terrible. I could be like a few feet away and I can get grabbed. Even when we're on different levels in the air I can get grabbed. It's inconsistent.
Thats also what they did to Crash grab controls. The pause for throwing attempt animation also sucks.

[Nasiso]

It's insulting that they're going back to Tenkaichi. They're basically admitting that they screwed up and should've just started with this 2 years ago. It sucks, but there may be some progress to come out of this.

[Frieza_Soldier]

It's insulting that they're going back to Tenkaichi. They're basically admitting that they screwed up and should've just started with this 2 years ago. It sucks, but there may be some progress to come out of this.
Insulting? More like a light bulb for them, If they continued where they were going, they'd be bankrupt like Midway was, companies need to expand on what works, not restart and fail. It's better for them to admit their recent products sucked rather them ignore it and blow sales further.

[Zienzo]

Eehh...I liked the controls for RB[2] better than tenkaichi though...seems like it would be awkward to go back to it...then again Ihad the wii version so I played with the gamecube controller. I don't know what the ps2 was like.

[Nasiso]

Insulting? More like a light bulb for them, If they continued where they were going, they'd be bankrupt like Midway was, companies need to expand on what works, not restart and fail. It's better for them to admit their recent products sucked rather them ignore it and blow sales further.

It's still insulting to admit that you screwed it up for the past two years. I did say that this might be a good step in the right direction, but you can't erase the past. And the truth is is that this should've been RB1.
I know, I'm being overly pessimistic, but they better do something to wow me

[Frieza_Soldier]

Eehh...I liked the controls for RB[2] better than tenkaichi though...seems like it would be awkward to go back to it...then again Ihad the wii version so I played with the gamecube controller. I don't know what the ps2 was like.
I just didn't like the super method in BT, that should stay how they are. (the only thing that RB improved aproved on for me in controls.)
What about The Super rising? where will that be placed? (hopefully they could add Super Decend and Super reverse for blasting a burst backard like the super dash forward.)

[Zienzo]

Ah, yeah. Especially if they decide to limit it again. That's a no...

[Frieza_Soldier]

It's still insulting to admit that you screwed it up for the past two years. I did say that this might be a good step in the right direction, but you can't erase the past. And the truth is is that this should've been RB1.
I know, I'm being overly pessimistic, but they better do something to wow me

How do you expect anyone to change a flaw in their path if they don't realize they're wrong first. (just ask Vegeta...) anyway, I'm glad they stopped now before this went out of hand. PPL still care for this franchise but not as much as before, simply because of that RB series.

[Nasiso]

How do you expect anyone to change a flaw in their path if they don't realize they're wrong first. (just ask Vegeta...) anyway, I'm glad they stopped now before this went out of hand. PPL still care for this franchise but not as much as before, simply because of that RB series.

They just need to realize that games actually need to be good now to get a consumer to use their dollar. You have model franchises releasing ever more popular games. They can't get away with making mediocre games since 60$ down the drain with other great titles out isn't the same as 40$ down the drain with not-so-good titles out

[MysticGospel]

How do you expect anyone to change a flaw in their path if they don't realize they're wrong first. (just ask Vegeta...) anyway, I'm glad they stopped now before this went out of hand. PPL still care for this franchise but not as much as before, simply because of that RB series.
And people dropped DBZ games because of the BTs, RB is pretty much a step up.

[Frieza_Soldier]

And people dropped DBZ games because of the BTs, RB is pretty much a step up.
I don't think so. People still worship BT3, I don't find RB an advancement, Nothing as wrong with BT3.

[kbrooksgohan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnq0J31EO5M&feature=related
this is better than the entire rb and perhaps tenkaichi series. this is why i get mad at the console games. the presentation sucks.

combine that with the fact that the characters have unique combos and supers and ultimates despite having a large roster.

[Nasiso]

B3's ten week totals (doesn't inclue Europe or Australia, where it says only 100 k copies were sold o.O): 1.4 millions copies sold

Ten week totals for BT3 were 1.57 million copies sold

Ten week totals for RB2: 232k


Eh, I'd say that's a downward trend, wouldn't you?
Case in point: I remember DBZ games actually reaching the top ten list on Gamespot. I haven't seen it ever since T2 or T3

[Frieza_Soldier]

B3's ten week totals (doesn't inclue Europe or Australia, where it says only 100 k copies were sold o.O): 1.4 millions copies sold

Ten week totals for BT3 were 1.57 million copies sold

Ten week totals for RB2: 232k


Eh, I'd say that's a downward trend, wouldn't you?
Case in point: I remember DBZ games actually reaching the top ten list on Gamespot. I haven't seen it ever since T2 or T3

As of November 14th, 2010, Dragon Ball: Raging Blast currently has sold approximately 900,000 copies across both consoles worldwide, with 530,000 on the PlayStation 3, and 370,000 on the Xbox 360.

[Badboynic1010]

As of November 14th, 2010, Dragon Ball: Raging Blast currently has sold approximately 900,000 copies across both consoles worldwide, with 530,000 on the PlayStation 3, and 370,000 on the Xbox 360.

Did Budokai 3 sell more than that? That would be crazy considering it's on only one system

[MysticGospel]

I don't think so. People still worship BT3, I don't find RB an advancement, Nothing as wrong with BT3.
And there are people who dropped the series after BT2.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnq0J...eature=related
this is better than the entire rb and perhaps tenkaichi series. this is why i get mad at the console games. the presentation sucks.

combine that with the fact that the characters have unique combos and supers and ultimates despite having a large roster.
Translation: you're shallow, I bet you think that UNS2 is way better as well becuase of that.

[donkeyjack]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hnq0J31EO5M&feature=related
this is better than the entire rb and perhaps tenkaichi series. this is why i get mad at the console games. the presentation sucks.

combine that with the fact that the characters have unique combos and supers and ultimates despite having a large roster.

LMAO, you seriously going to compare a Butoden series game to Tenkaichi and RB series???

Can you please compare Hyper Dimension, too??

[Frieza_Soldier]

And there are people who dropped the series after BT2.
Well I am not one of those people. Their standards must be SF high. That doesn't mean anything. I could tell you people left after BT1 for all we know.

[kbrooksgohan]

uh...,shallow? dude thats a bit much. the rb series sucks in presentation and uniqueness. a handheld is better when it comes 2 BASIC DBZ staples. that and it actually is exciting to play with characters with new animations. you missed the point. i can name alot of ps2 db games and handhelds that surpass the junk we have now. and fyi i don't play naruto. but i loved the presentation of the ps2 games. the tenkaichi series felt more like it was on the track. then they did rb1 and left out tons of stuff that we already had in a variety of areas. the past games r better than the current gen. its really sad u can't see that. this should have been rb1.....

[MysticGospel]

Well I am not one of those people. Their standards must be SF high. That doesn't mean anything. I could tell you people left after BT1 for all we know.
Well I was. I can't vouch for the others but I was ready to quit DBZ games after BT2 becuase of how shallow and repetitive they were, and that was back when I was 14 and was a completely casual player (I didn't learn B3's cancel system until 2006/2007). The only reason I'm even here is becuase BT3 (after waiting for the price to drop to under $20.00) managed to actually be really fun.

uh...,shallow? dude thats a bit much. the rb series sucks in presentation and uniqueness. a handheld is better when it comes 2 BASIC DBZ staples.
No, it's pretty much shallow to value presentation over gameplay.


that and it actually is exciting to play with characters with new animations. you missed the point. i can name alot of ps2 db games and handhelds that surpass the junk we have now.
Let's see, B1-3, and Super DBZ have better gameplay and BT3 is more fun, the presentation has nothing to do with it, they were better becuase they played better.


and fyi i don't play naruto. but i loved the presentation of the ps2 games. the tenkaichi series felt more like it was on the track. then they did rb1 and left out tons of stuff that we already had in a variety of areas. the past games r better than the current gen. its really sad u can't see that.
The only past game BT game that's better than the RB games is BT3, BT1 and BT2 are complete trash and I would easily play RB/RB2 over those games anytime.


this should have been rb1.....
A 2D fighting game? That's a radical change don't you think?

[Frieza_Soldier]

Well I was. I can't vouch for the others but I was ready to quit DBZ games after BT2 becuase of how shallow and repetitive they were, and that was back when I was 14 and was a completely casual player (I didn't learn B3's cancel system until 2006/2007). The only reason I'm even here is becuase BT3 (after waiting for the price to drop to under $20.00) managed to actually be really fun.
How can you even think of give up on BT2 when it was only spike's second game ever? The fans didn't act as narrow-minded as they do now as far as I remember, nothing spoiled them.(I was lucky to never have wasted money on the awful BT1) but hey, the sequel overhauled it. BT3 finished the deal. I'd say quiting here r after project2011 happens is more logical since spike has had chances before this.

[Kokos]

It's insulting that they're going back to Tenkaichi. They're basically admitting that they screwed up and should've just started with this 2 years ago. It sucks, but there may be some progress to come out of this.

No... they refined the controls to make it closer to the Sparking series. They are not going back completely.

People here seem to exaggerate a little too much. http://www.9lives.be/forum/images/smilies/sop.gif

[NathanCX]

B3's ten week totals (doesn't inclue Europe or Australia, where it says only 100 k copies were sold o.O): 1.4 millions copies sold

Ten week totals for BT3 were 1.57 million copies sold

Ten week totals for RB2: 232k


Eh, I'd say that's a downward trend, wouldn't you?
Case in point: I remember DBZ games actually reaching the top ten list on Gamespot. I haven't seen it ever since T2 or T3
They're also on different consoles. Here's a tip for you, more people had a PS2 back then than have a PS3/360 now.

[MysticGospel]

How can you even think of give up on BT2 when it was only spike's second game ever? The fans didn't act as narrow-minded as they do now as far as I remember, nothing spoiled them.(I was lucky to never have wasted money on the awful BT1) but hey, the sequel overhauled it. BT3 finished the deal. I'd say quiting here r after project2011 happens is more logical since spike has had chances before this.
B1 and B2 were Dimps' first games and they did a decent job with them BT1 was complete trash but I still enjoyed it a bit and wanted a sequel, then BT2's announced and the game looks fantastic, I play the game, like it at first but then discover that it still has the fundamental problems of BT1 and I decidecd "screw it, they guys just care about characters and stages, I'm done with Spike." And with BT3 looking basically the same (when it was announced) didn't do well to change that view. However, out of curiosity I looked up videos on Youtube and slowly became interested (mostly becuase of the Red Potara characters and story mode) but remembering what happened with BT1 and BT2, I decided to wait until the price dropped a good amount (took about 9 months for that to happen). Then when I finally got the game (for the Wii) I was surpised at how enjoyable the game was and played it for a year, something I hadn't done since B3.

RB and RB2 are okay, but they're still no where near the levels of bad that BT1 and BT2 were, they're basically just boring if anything.

You were just fortunate to have bought BT2 first (assuming that you didn't play BT1 first).

[NathanCX]

Tenkaichi 1 did have two things I miss actually. For starters the water used to swirl and move when you charged and secondly the hit-charge system was pretty cool. Annoying. But cool.

[MysticGospel]

What was the hit charge system again? Another nice thing about that game was how certain characters glowed when they reached max power.

[Frieza_Soldier]

What was the hit charge system again? Another nice thing about that game was how certain characters glowed when they reached max power.
Not to mention the only game of spike's where rocks flew up when you charged up, small ones but still there but never added again. Until RB1 (even though it wasn't ingame which will forever suck until they add that back. ingame.)

BT1 had interesting What-if stories, like what if the villains killed their enemies, or Oozaru Gohan vs Oozaru Vegeta.

[NathanCX]

What was the hit charge system again? Another nice thing about that game was how certain characters glowed when they reached max power.
You had this bar along the bottom of your hud where you needed to hit a opponent enough times before you could charge a punch and send them flying.

[Frieza_Soldier]

B1 and B2 were Dimps' first games and they did a decent job with them BT1 was complete trash but I still enjoyed it a bit and wanted a sequel, then BT2's announced and the game looks fantastic, I play the game, like it at first but then discover that it still has the fundamental problems of BT1 and I decidecd "screw it, they guys just care about characters and stages, I'm done with Spike." And with BT3 looking basically the same (when it was announced) didn't do well to change that view. However, out of curiosity I looked up videos on Youtube and slowly became interested (mostly becuase of the Red Potara characters and story mode) but remembering what happened with BT1 and BT2, I decided to wait until the price dropped a good amount (took about 9 months for that to happen). Then when I finally got the game (for the Wii) I was surpised at how enjoyable the game was and played it for a year, something I hadn't done since B3.

RB and RB2 are okay, but they're still no where near the levels of bad that BT1 and BT2 were, they're basically just boring if anything.

You were just fortunate to have bought BT2 first (assuming that you didn't play BT1 first).
I totally agree there. I was indeed lucky to have bought BT2 first. I borrowed BT1 from a friend and trashed it because of the awful gameplay. However yes, Bt3 was strikingly similar to BT2 it was lucky enough for it's gameplay, however that won't work unless people remain open for intrest, which isn't as high as it used to be. RB hardly did anything to improve on BT3 other then visuals. Same with RB2, it was mainly hyped on visuals and RS. Their claim "enough depth to satisfly" was just them adding in SOME bt3 elements like the super after a pursuit in max power but...so what... The visuals on attacks decreased drastically. (ignoring the cutscenes on ultimates)

[MysticGospel]

You had this bar along the bottom of your hud where you needed to hit a opponent enough times before you could charge a punch and send them flying.
Oh that, I wasn't a huge fan of that, I preferred BT2's version. (I know that BT3 did the same thing but they got rid of the bar)


I totally agree there. I was indeed lucky to have bought BT2 first. I borrowed BT1 from a friend and trashed it because of the awful gameplay. However yes, Bt3 was strikingly similar to BT2 it was lucky enough for it's gameplay, however that won't work unless people remain open for intrest, which isn't as high as it used to be. RB hardly did anything to improve on BT3 other then visuals. Same with RB2, it was mainly hyped on visuals and RS. Their claim "enough depth to satisfly" was just them adding in SOME bt3 elements like the super after a pursuit in max power but...so what... The visuals on attacks decreased drastically. (ignoring the cutscenes on ultimates)
I think that it's a mixture of it being different from the BTs and not having as many characters.

[NathanCX]

Oh that, I wasn't a huge fan of that, I preferred BT2's version. (I know that BT3 did the same thing but they got rid of the bar)

Fair enough man, I realise that it was quite widely hated even then.

I would honestly say Project Age is to Raging Blast 2 what Tenkaichi 2 was to the original.

The first Tenkaichi was so drastically different but since the second game they all followed the same format. Project Age looks set to change that and reinvent the series for a second time.

[MysticGospel]

So far it looks that way, but I want to see some gameplay first.

[Nasiso]

No... they refined the controls to make it closer to the Sparking series. They are not going back completely.

People here seem to exaggerate a little too much. http://www.9lives.be/forum/images/smilies/sop.gif

Ofc they're not going back completely. I'd really hope not or I'd really be trashing them.

Listen, I understand what they're doing and I applaud them for realizing something won't work out and changing it up, but it still sucks knowing I wasted 120$ on games that really didn't need to happen if Spike just went this way two years ago


They're also on different consoles. Here's a tip for you, more people had a PS2 back then than have a PS3/360 now.

Well, having about 1/7 of how many copies you were selling before is kind of lame. Esp. considering that games like COD: Black Ops are selling 5.6 million the first day they're released (source:http://gamerant.com/call-duty-black-ops-record-breaking-day-1-56-million-sold-bow-52158/). Just think about that. 5.6 mil in one day compared to 232k in your first ten weeks. I know, I know, I can't honestly compare Black Ops and RB2 and expect them to be close at all, but that's just insanity.

[NathanCX]

Well, having about 1/7 of how many copies you were selling before is kind of lame. Esp. considering that games like COD: Black Ops are selling 5.6 million the first day they're released (source:http://gamerant.com/call-duty-black-ops-record-breaking-day-1-56-million-sold-bow-52158/). Just think about that. 5.6 mil in one day compared to 232k in your first ten weeks. I know, I know, I can't honestly compare Black Ops and RB2 and expect them to be close at all, but that's just insanity.
It is 'lame' indeed but such is life, they're still making enough money to stay in business though. Yeah, it was a bit of a weak comparison but I get the point you're trying to make.

[Kokos]

Ofc they're not going back completely. I'd really hope not or I'd really be trashing them.

Listen, I understand what they're doing and I applaud them for realizing something won't work out and changing it up, but it still sucks knowing I wasted 120$ on games that really didn't need to happen if Spike just went this way two years ago


Look on the bright side: Did you have fun with those 2 games? If you did, I don't think you've wasted your money. If you didn't, well... I guess you did waste your money but you could sell your games to minimize the financial damage, so to speak. Even though you probably won't get much in return at this point.

[Dream Weaver]

But in my opinion, RB just streamlined the controls. Having to tap XX to grab was annoying. I prefer block and B. And the super attack combinations...

[Kokos]

I don't see how streamlining the controls is a bad thing, considering the Sparking controls weren't exactly the best either, especially when learning the game and the critics acknowledged that.

They tried to make the controls more accessible in the Raging Blast series, though it wasn't really that succesful if you ask me... I still think they are more accessible though, but only slightly, not enough to make a difference.

I think it would be cool if they tried the control scheme of Zone of The Enders 2 (an awesome PS2 game). That game had very fluid controls, it was more comfortable for me than the Sparking - Raging Blast series and the Dissidia series.
The problem I see with this though, is that Zone of The Enders 2 is a pure action game with mechs unlike Sparking and Raging Blast which are, while very much like Zone of The Enders, still meant to be fighting games in a sense. These 2 genres wouldn't really get along well.

[Donie95]

I actually prefer controls like the tenkaichi's where it is slightly harder to learn. Making it so easy to do super attacks, for example, isn't a plus for me, I can't really explain why. I don't think super attacks is a command that should be so easy to perform, it takes away a little something from the attacks imo. I'm glad their making a change to the controls.

I really hope that they switch the ascend/jump to L2 and the descend button to R2. That way I believe it makes it possible to make a mechanic where you can actually control the height and distance you jump, and you could even control the speed at which you descend. I think this is a good idea. Shame they've overlooked the possibility of this though in their past games.

[Dream Weaver]

I think that the right stick for supers is simple while L1+triangle etc is over-compliacting things. However, having to input buttons makes this feel like a fighter. Maybe there can ba a command that requires the ki button.

[MysticGospel]

I think that the right stick for supers is simple while L1+triangle etc is over-compliacting things. However, having to input buttons makes this feel like a fighter. Maybe there can ba a command that requires the ki button.
Power guard, powered up versions of supers, the possibilities are there but are not being used. It's another reason why I like RB/RB2's control scheme becuase it opens the game up for new things unlike BT's which was basically maxed out in BT3.

@Donie:
Ki charge+ki blast doesn't make it harder, it just gives it a very unnecessary command.

[Badboynic1010]

I dont think it will be that much of a drastic change. Goku fights similar to his RB style in the trailer

I just think they will bring back the high and low vanishing attacks, as well as high and low guard. It will be silly for them to remove supers from the right stick, unless they have another function worthy enough to replace it.

I also kinda dont want the automatic sway to be brought back. I like the manual sway, they just need to make it a bit more possible. Like if I am blocking and someone is rushing me, I should be able to do manual sway.

[NathanCX]

What does everyone think about the supers/ultimate button(s)?

Do you prefer Raging Blast where you can seamlessly flick your finger forward and execute a well-timed Kamehameha to the face or do you prefer pressing buttons and it being a wee bit harder to pull them off?

[Frieza_Soldier]

But in my opinion, RB just streamlined the controls. Having to tap XX to grab was annoying. I prefer block and B. And the super attack combinations...
But crash being a seperate grab and sig getting it's own button seems worse then pushing forward and X for throw. At least then it was less finger reach. Not to mention L2 and X being a teleport or L2 and something being a downed strike on its own... c'mon, that could just be down and Attack.

I wouldn't mind if taunting was returning (but not automatic, there was nothing wrong with the D - pad for Taunting.) And B/(o) being a ki button switching ^ to a kick button (as discussed before) wouldn't be so bad, a second melee button would open up more custom combos.

@Dream Weaver/NathanCX. I found nothing wrong with Supers being on the right stick, It didn't change anything for me but made it easier on the face buttons considering how easy it is to wreck them in a fighting game. Or Transformations being selectably easier to manage. I actually rather keep supers as they are, that also leaves more room then just 3 strategies for 3 moves, I mean adding things like (L2 < and (o)) will get awkward and hard to time. (IMO)

@BadBoynic - It seemed to me that auto sway wasn't really needed and really easy to dodge physicals without actually trying or manuvering, however it was mor efficiant. RB's sway hardly ever works imo were as the budokai sway it was so sensitive it caught everything.

[Frieza_Soldier]

(Sigh) I still keep wondering about this, the controls wont change anything unless the engine goes back to the way it was as well but improved logically. I hope they're not going to try and fool us just by changing the button placement but keep the same RB engine..

[Zuumaester]

(Sigh) I still keep wondering about this, the controls wont change anything unless the engine goes back to the way it was as well but improved logically. I hope they're not going to try and fool us just by changing the button placement but keep the same RB engine..

The select button could be used for something like changing the camera range, directional input while pressing select becomes taunting.

[Frieza_Soldier]

I think after seeing the Trunks vid, I know I want Sword withdraw, optional seeing as how Janemba doesn't use it in the anime as much as he does in the games. I also wish they didnt use Phrases to name attacks too... I mean Budokai 3 had authentic technique sounding titles were as Spike can only think of "Nappa cannon" and "Videl Rush" were as IW Janemba has "Rakasha Sword" or however you spell it... BT3 was the last game to use personalized sounding attacks.

[Zuumaester]

I think after seeing the Trunks vid, I know I want Sword withdraw, optional seeing as how Janemba doesn't use it in the anime as much as he does in the games. I also wish they didnt use Phrases to name attacks too... I mean Budokai 3 had authentic technique sounding titles were as Spike can only think of "Nappa cannon" and "Videl Rush" were as IW Janemba has "Rakasha Sword" or however you spell it...

Super janemba also has it now as part of a rush but not as his throw.

[Frieza_Soldier]

Super janemba also has it now as part of a rush but not as his throw.
......Has what?

[Zuumaester]

......Has what?

His ogre club(sword) but only as a ground rush-attack. He doesn't have the sword when he's in the air, unless you do charge-attacks. his signature is two unblockable ki-blasts that could have been something interesting, like a tailgrab.

[Frieza_Soldier]

His ogre club(sword) but only as a ground rush-attack. He doesn't have the sword when he's in the air, unless you do charge-attacks. his signature is two unblockable ki-blasts that could have been something interesting, like a tailgrab.
But his melee uses mostly his slashing. were as in Zenkai you can be fists OR sword

[Zuumaester]

But his melee uses mostly his slashing. were as in Zenkai you can be fists OR sword

I suppose it's too much to ask for, but do you honestly think that melee weapons can be used by other characters that never used melee weapons? Maybe make a dbz game around weapon oriented combat like Soul Calibur.

[Frieza_Soldier]

I suppose it's too much to ask for, but do you honestly think that melee weapons can be used by other characters that never used melee weapons? Maybe make a dbz game around weapon oriented combat like Soul Calibur.
No, I dont want that, unless only Kid Gohan has it as an equiped item but no, keep it canon.

[SSJ-Luffy]

I suppose it's too much to ask for, but do you honestly think that melee weapons can be used by other characters that never used melee weapons? Maybe make a dbz game around weapon oriented combat like Soul Calibur.

With more generic normals and animation??? No, thanks...

[Zuumaester]

With more generic normals and animation??? No, thanks...

Hey i only asked, is that so horrible of me?

[Frieza_Soldier]

What if we got seperate punch and kick buttons? at least then we would get longer combos, manual costumized mix ups as well? How would this work? Any ideas?

[Zuumaester]

What if we got seperate punch and kick buttons? at least then we would get longer combos, manual costumized mix ups as well? How would this work? Any ideas?

At close range it would work, Triangle for the kicks and such, however that button is for ki-blasts and even so imo [] is a better choice for heavy attacks. Charge-attacks could technically be squeezed multiple times and you would basically get the same results from the Shin budokai series. I think it could work.

[Frieza_Soldier]

At close range it would work, Triangle for the kicks and such, however that button is for ki-blasts and even so imo [] is a better choice for heavy attacks. Charge-attacks could technically be squeezed multiple times and you would basically get the same results from the Shin budokai series. I think it could work.
As I said before, to hell with signatures being (O) and make them just a part of a combo or a RS combo. then move Ki blasts to (0) like in B3.

[MysticGospel]

But sigs are actually pretty damn good.

[Zuumaester]

But sigs are actually pretty damn good.

^ This. :) I actually like Signatures for characters.

[Frieza_Soldier]

^ This. :) I actually like Signatures for characters.
I dont like them as they are though. The cloned ones, the ones that should be regular combos and the ones that are the same as other in game moves. Also I felt, Scouter Vegeta's was better when it was part of a combo,

[Donie95]

What if we got seperate punch and kick buttons? at least then we would get longer combos, manual costumized mix ups as well? How would this work? Any ideas?

Definitely, I thought of this too. Screw the smash attack system, with this the combo's could finally be properly unique.

[Klepto]

Personally I hated signature moves. I'd be in the middle of a combo, ready to send an enemy flying into a wall and that was immediately stopped by a signature. It was dumb how you could be attacking Vegeta and just randomly get hit by 10 really fast ki blasts.

[GF9000000Returns]

Too late for that now since the signature are back in their individual spots.

Some sigs I liked, some I don't.

[Donie95]

Really? Well then I wonder what O and /\ are now, 'cos with the absense of ki blasts whilst in melee mode triangle now serves nothing. (Whilst in melee mode btw)

[Zuumaester]

Really? Well then I wonder what O and /\ are now, 'cos with the absense of ki blasts whilst in melee mode triangle now serves nothing. (Whilst in melee mode btw)

If there's suddenly buttons that do nothing while you're in a specific range, then this game has dropped even further down on my hate list. Never, ever remove functions from buttons that could still be there.